Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

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Eco
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Re: California Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by Eco » July 2013

I understand now, but were there not other ways to protect himself? The only reason I ask is because I work at a no kill animal shelter and have to deal with aggressive dogs 24/7

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Re: California Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by james- » July 2013

Shit, I forgot that tazers, pepper spray, and batons don't work on anything other than humans.

I also forgot that it's perfectly safe to discharge a firearm when there is a large crowd of people around you.

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Re: California Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by kirk » July 2013

Hudson` wrote:This is pretty clearly utter horseshit. Anyone who says otherwise is basically

(a) a troll, or
(b) so mentally rigid and insistent on cramming everything they see into their own pre-established (typically right wing) social frame that -- to any person who actually trusts their own instincts regarding right and wrong -- they are indistinguishable from a troll.

But, I mean, why bother actually being an empathetic and compassionate human being, when you can just cloak issues in an ill conceived legal framework. Then you can just apply rules -- which aren't really designed to enforce right and wrong in the first place -- to make a moral judgement on the issue. Because actually trusting your feelings is bad, you guise.

Then theres always racism lurking around anyway.

Fun for all!

Feelings are for women and gay people, Hudson. Goodness.

stile wrote:Just watched that video. I didn't see an officer approach, but it's very possible that an officer said something from a distance. I can see an officer looking at him. I can't hear anything because of that god damn music and the recorder's narrative.

And I'm willing to bet that if a court were to see the videos, they would say any attempts by officers to have the man turn down his radio were insufficient assuming they were even present in the first place. That video shows a man standing away from police perimeter, recording the events, and then after ~7-10 minutes pass, he is arrested without having been approached previously.

If his radio was such a disturbance, why did officers allow that much time to go by...? Why did no one approach him sooner?

It absolutely appears to be an unlawful arrest. I won't say it is for certain, but it seems to be, and if that is the case then the officers are to blame for the dog being killed.

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Re: California Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by stile » July 2013

james- wrote:Shit, I forgot that tazers, pepper spray, and batons don't work on anything other than humans.

I also forgot that it's perfectly safe to discharge a firearm when there is a large crowd of people around you.


Just so you know. Some departments don't issue tazers. SFPD for example, does not.

kirk wrote:And I'm willing to bet that if a court were to see the videos, they would say any attempts by officers to have the man turn down his radio were insufficient assuming they were even present in the first place. That video shows a man standing away from police perimeter, recording the events, and then after ~7-10 minutes pass, he is arrested without having been approached previously.

If his radio was such a disturbance, why did officers allow that much time to go by...? Why did no one approach him sooner?

It absolutely appears to be an unlawful arrest. I won't say it is for certain, but it seems to be, and if that is the case then the officers are to blame for the dog being killed.


I would assume that they didn't approach him sooner because they were busy supervising the apprehension of the suspects in the house.

Dunno what a court would say. It's hard to speculate about things like that.

They really shouldn't have arrested him. A little bit of communication goes a long way. Shit like this doesn't help police image.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by acetamino » July 2013

ok so in the video I hear the narrator and his buddy saying, "oh look theyre talking to him do you hear what theyre saying?" and this is after the narrators are saying "i cant hear shit that music is loud"

the dogs owner was probably being detained NOT arrested. the cop tried to calm the dog down, but dogs are loyal to their owners, and he used forced.


I have to see wards point of view on this.
I didnt read the article, just watched the video and made my own interpretation.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by Jb_ » July 2013

That video makes me sick, delete this post. Id rather them shot the dogs owner then the dog itself. Either way this was some bullshit.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by kirk » July 2013

acetamino wrote:ok so in the video I hear the narrator and his buddy saying, "oh look theyre talking to him do you hear what theyre saying?" and this is after the narrators are saying "i cant hear shit that music is loud"

the dogs owner was probably being detained NOT arrested. the cop tried to calm the dog down, but dogs are loyal to their owners, and he used forced.


I have to see wards point of view on this.
I didnt read the article, just watched the video and made my own interpretation.

But at no point did an officer approach the man. The first time he is approached he is being handcuffed.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by mogers » July 2013

Here are some random statements:

The police could have very easily put the owner in front of his dog and let him calm him down.

If that guy would have put his dog in the car and rolled the windows up, they would have arrested him for cruelty to animals trollololol.

How did that guy not freak the fuck out after they shot his dog? I would have hulked out of those handcuffs.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by nomis » July 2013

That... was really hard to watch, I just hope the dog didn't end up suffering for long. I fucking hate the police, every once in a while you find a cop who's actually pretty cool, but almost all the other cops in this world are seriously assholes who abuse their power.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by Polak » July 2013

Okay so before the next witch hunt for the Hawthorne, CA, police officer begins, let's look at some of the evidence seen in the video now going viral:

The police were clearly working some sort of high profile operation. Street duty cops don't carry MP5 submachine guns on a daily basis. Something important was going on (drug bust, maybe? Or a manhunt?)

The owner of the dog was verbally antagonizing the police, going as far as to say something that commented on how come all the police were white and none were black. He's calling the cops racist when he is the only one being racist in the situation.

The owner of the dog was blasting music from his car, which is not only a violation of traffic law, but is also an impairment to the cops and their ability to communicate clearly with each other.

The police officers most likely would have told the guy plenty of times to [basically] beat it from the scene. Instead, the owner chose to stay and be buff to prove whatever moot point he was trying to make.

Eventually the owner turned to put his dog back in the car so it's safe to assume the police had told him yet again to leave. Here, we can hear the owner complain about a violation of rights. What rights he's talking about, I'm not sure. But though we have a right to be where we want to be, it's just stupid to remain at an active police scene that might not be safe.

After putting the dog back in the car, instead of leaving the owner went and approached the cops in a "COME AT ME BRO" manner. He had his chance to leave, and instead chose to stay and antagonize some more. The police DETAINED him (which is different from being arrested), and were about to put him in a squad car, most likely until the operation was over.

The dog then started barking and jumped out of the car it was in, no doubt coming to the aid of its owner. At this point, a third cop comes in to try and calm the dog down. The dog makes a few lunges at the police officer's arm as the officer tries to get a hold of the leash to control it. A final lunge that would have contacted the officers arm was made, and this is when the cop shot the dog in self defense.

Before you run to the owner's side and claim that he was not at all at fault, he had MANY opportunities to vacate the scene, but instead chose to remain. While the dog shooting was unfortunate, it could have been avoided if the owner just left. Was the shooting a necessity? Maybe not. Could the cop have drawn a taser instead? Well, what are the effects of tasers on animals? Would the shock have killed the dog anyway, seeing as tasers are primed to take down grown men as heavy as 250lbs?

Again, think about who is at fault here: an arrogant, disruptive citizen or police officers doing their job. Remember, the police didn't shoot first and ask questions later. They gave the man MANY chances to stop and leave, but he didn't. The shooting of the dog was just collateral damage caused by its owner's hubris


The whole video if you care to watch






The guy was a fucking dumbass. Shut up all you dog lovers, if I saw a dog like that I would shoot it in a second. But there are cops out there who have more balls than I do and taze them like this guy...





Too long didn't read; Yeah the arrest was legit. Police were outside with MP5s doing a massive raid. Man other people were recording without a problem. He was obstructing, he even put his dog back in the car. Was spoke too many times.

Also side note. If there is a false arrest there are many things that need to be taken into consideration. For instance if the police kick your door down and they have the wrong house well they need to pay for any times of damages etc. However many different states have different rights.

Indiana, you can legally shoot copes who are trespassing. In MOST states when an arrest is being legal or not, the officer has priority to protect himself, and given the situation of the cop he's probably going to get away with it.... some of them are terrified of squirrels....


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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by nunz » July 2013

The dog is a sad lose and this is something that should never have happened in the first place. The owner could have warned the officers that the dog would be aggressive but he failed to do so. This may not have changed anything but at the very least they would not have been surprised by it jumping out of the window. These officers made the mistake of making this arrest when there were clearly busy doing other things. This officer will probably lose alot of friends and peers for this so his life definitely changed the moment he fired. Sadly this idiot put himself in a situation he had no reason to do, walk your dog pick up its shit and move along. There is no reason for you to be watching a police raid no matter how cool you think it is, your putting yourself in danger and the cops are trying to do their jobs, they do not decide to raid their superiors do. At the end of the day I believe both parties made mistakes and thankfully no people were injured.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by kirk » July 2013

Polak wrote:Yeah the arrest was legit.

So what do you know that no one else does?

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by sevEN » July 2013

i didnt read any of the responses

but as bad as i feel for the owner of the dog seeing the cops shoot it in front of his face, i probably would have done the same. the cops gave it a few moments to see how the dog was going to react and it definitely looked like the dog was going to attack. very sad, but i am not going to hate on the cop for that.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by Jstampz » July 2013

I just died a little bit

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by D-bo » July 2013

Polak wrote:



I lol'd pretty hard

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by cassinoroyale » July 2013

Those of you who said that would shoot the dog without hesitation clearly don't have pets (or if you do, it's either a cat or you don't love them enough). Seeing this dog being shoot and agonizing was very painful to me and in a cathartic way made me care and love my dog even more when I got home yesterday. I've watched the video twice and it didn't seemed to me that the dog would attack them. The dog was clearly nervous about seeing his best friend being held in custody and was just trying to intimidate the cops by barking and jumping. In my opinion, the third cop that approached the detainment fucked up everything and this whole situation ratifies my opinion that everyone - no matter if it's in favor or against the law - who uses guns to inflict damage / intend to kill people are fags.

RIP

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by joeledmunds » July 2013

I'm not going to watch this video, because I don't really need to see all the graphic shit on the internet, but this definitely sounds like a situation that changes when you're in it. Not saying the officer wasn't a douchebag who just went for his gun because he loves using it, because maybe he was, but it's also possible he saw a snarling, dangerous animal coming at him and was actually struck with legitimate fear.

Think about it like this: while your everyday experience with dogs may be one where your pet follows you around the house, leans into your hand when you pet it, and sprawls alongside you when you take a nap. For this cop, the every day experience could be barking, growling dogs doing their best to snap their chain just so they can take a bite out of you. He may know coworkers, or even friends and family members who have endured horrible injuries from abused animals. While that isn't the animal's fault, but that of dog-owning dirtbags, not everyone would be willing to risk disfigurement or even death just to uphold an "animals are people too" ideal.

Where I come from, there are coyotes. Bounties are given on them at certain times of the year, because their population has to be controlled. If there's too many, they become a risk to pets, livestock and people. So the idea of dangerous canines being put down isn't new to me. Big, mean dogs can be deadly. How would you react if a mistreated animal was about to attack and kill your friendly, fun-loving pooch?

Like I said, I'm not going to watch this video, so I may be way off-base on this particular instance. I have no desire to watch a dog die just because this is the hot video of the week. This thread makes it sound like both human parties were in the wrong in some respect. I just don't think people should lose sight of what that animal can represent in this situation.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by Eco » July 2013

I honestly think the cop got scarred and shot in response. Not using his brain, he freaked out and fired the shots. The dog SNAPPED at the cop for trying to grab the leash, what dog wouldn't? He never went after the cop a second time. He lunges once to keep the cop from grabbing the leash and then pulls back, that's when the cop fires at the dog. Many other options to keep the dog calm or keep him away from his fellow officers.

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Re: California Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by crawtona » July 2013

Hudson` wrote:...(b) so mentally rigid and insistent on cramming everything they see into their own pre-established (typically right wing) social frame...


The irony in this statement made me smile. Thank you.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by kirk » July 2013

People are still debating whether it was right to shoot the dog rather than focusing on the events leading up to the situation where a dog had to be killed. It's nonsense.

It's pretty much the same thing as the debates on gun control. Everyone focuses on the events themselves rather than the preceding variables which contribute to gun violence.

Like...stop...

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by squatta » July 2013

kirk wrote:People are still debating whether it was right to shoot the dog rather than focusing on the events leading up to the situation where a dog had to be killed. It's nonsense.

It's pretty much the same thing as the debates on gun control. Everyone focuses on the events themselves rather than the preceding variables which contribute to gun violence.

Like...stop...

Image

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by ward » July 2013

kirk wrote:People are still debating whether it was right to shoot the dog rather than focusing on the events leading up to the situation where a dog had to be killed. It's nonsense.

It's pretty much the same thing as the debates on gun control. Everyone focuses on the events themselves rather than the preceding variables which contribute to gun violence.

Like...stop...


This is why this whole issue is full of derp. People see the dog die and the whole debate becomes based on emotions instead of reason.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by kirk » July 2013

Sears wrote:Image

Image

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by kanguhhh » July 2013

Having managed a Law Firm for almost two years now, I can tell you that this is a civil suit waiting to happen. I asked one of my attorneys and he said the same thing after watching it and reading about it. The three additional shots after the dog was trying to get away were not necessary. I won't get into how the arrest was illegal, because it was, and I don't feel like arguing with people that think they know everything about the law but this will be a civil suit 100%.

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Re: Police Arrest Man for Video Recording.

Post by ward » July 2013

kanguhhh wrote:Having managed a Law Firm for almost two years now, I can tell you that this is a civil suit waiting to happen. I asked one of my attorneys and he said the same thing after watching it and reading about it. The three additional shots after the dog was trying to get away were not necessary. I won't get into how the arrest was illegal, because it was, and I don't feel like arguing with people that think they know everything about the law but this will be a civil suit 100%.


The three additional shots were not necessary? I won't get into how you know nothing about defending yourself with a firearm, because you don't, I just don't feel like arguing with people that think they know everything about the use of firearms by trained professionals in self defense.
Last edited by ward on July 2013, edited 1 time in total.

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